Quantum Consciousness Debate: Does the Wave Function Actually Exist? | Penrose, Faggin & Kastrup

Two giants of science and technology—Nobel Laureate in physics, Sir Roger Penrose, and inventor of the microprocessor, Federico Faggin—meet to discuss their ideas on the relationship between Quantum Physics and consciousness, with the special participation of our own Bernardo Kastrup. While always respectful and congenial, the participants don’t shy away from disagreements. Their starting difference regards Quantum Theory itself: while Federico Faggin and Bernardo Kastrup allow its implications to inform their views, Sir Roger Penrose believes the theory itself to be at least incomplete and require further development. The discussion helps pin down and make explicit the fine points of the three gentlemen’s respective ideas regarding consciousness.

Roger Penrose’s and Stuart Hameroff’s original paper: https://doi.org/10.1098/rsta.1998.0254

Federico Faggins paper with Mauro D’Ariano:
https://arxiv.org/abs/2012.06580

This paper formed the basis for Faggin’s new book which can be ordered here: https://www.amazon.com/Irreducible-Consciousness-Computers-Human-Nature/dp/1803415096#


00:00 Brief summary of the debate
04:29 Introduction of the speakers
05:48 Roger Penrose’s theory and recent empirical findings in favor of it.
16:32 Bernardo Kastrup on the main differences between Roger Penrose’s and Federico Faggin’s views.
19:48 Roger Penrose responding to Kastrup’s and Faggin’s interpretation of quantum mechanics.
22:23 Federico Faggin on Penrose’s view that quantum mechanics is an incomplete theory.
25:43 Roger Penrose on the idea of the collapse of the wave function as a free will decision.
30:38 Bernardo Kastrup responding to Penrose’s ideas around a unifying theory and objective collapse
32:14 Kastrup telling Penrose collapse isn’t real.
34:31 Could a unifying theory point to the fundamentality of consciousness?
37:10 Faggin replying to Penrose’s objections to the idea of consciousness being primary.
39:55 To Roger Penrose: Is it fruitful to pursue the route of saying consciousness is fundamental?
44:42 Kastrup on a false dichotomy in collapse interpretations
54:11 Can we get from syntax to semantics?
57:57 Faggin on what qualia are
59:33 The ontology of Roger Penrose: does mathematics ‘exist’ ontically?
1:04:18 On Wheeler’s participatory universe
1:13:51 Is there any point to consciousness without free will?
1:17:15 Is consciousness restricted to brains?
1:21:26 What defines the human?
1:26:37 Al is a misnomer it’s not intelligent
1:29:15 Closing remarks

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